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{
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{
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"actor": "https://idiomdrottning.org/users/Sandra",
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"content": "Great & polite question from <span class=\"h-card\"><a class=\"u-url mention\" data-user=\"AMvXaPJRErxlP7TrdI\" href=\"https://merveilles.town/@wim_v12e\" rel=\"ugc\">@<span>wim_v12e</span></a></span> ♥<br><br>My arguments against blocking are weaker than the arguments for blocking so maybe I should block after all. I'm on the fence over here 🤷🏻♀️ <br><br>But for clarity's sake, here are my arguments against blocking:<br><br>1. I'm lazy and not super eager to keep up with all the fediblocklists. I do block a couple of dozen instances, and more as I run into bad ones (I'm not in the free speech extremism camp), but I'm not being super diligent with keeping up with the larger convo around this.<br>2. I value a heterogenous block landscape (i.e. I don't like a "these are the good sites, and we all allow each other and we have the exact same block list" world) for three reasons:<br>2a. If some "good" sites can manage to keep up the convo with the asshole sites, like how <span class=\"h-card\"><a class=\"u-url mention\" data-user=\"ATdoVfQ108BuhV60bg\" href=\"https://social.kernel.org/users/torvalds\" rel=\"ugc\">@<span>torvalds</span></a></span> clearly and plainly spoke out against "antiwoke" the other day, that's an overall good for society and can help deradicalize 'em. Insert Paul Baran's classic "distributed network" image here. It's not all good because it also somewhat legitimizes the asshole sites, but there are good aspects to it.<br>2b. Some instances are extra vulnerable and need an extra harsh instance block list (many even blocking <a href=\"http://mastodon.social\" rel=\"ugc\">mastodon.social</a>). Since that's legit, then the converse is also true: some instances can handle a less harsh instance block list.<br>2c. Even the "good side" has values it hasn't sorted out yet, and never will because discourse is never-ending and the arc of the moral universe is a wild and unruly rock-tumbler of chaos. As Pratchett put it: "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions." I've blocked people other "good" sites have allowed (for example Assange supporters) and I'm sure vice versa too (such as <a href=\"http://mastodon.social\" rel=\"ugc\">mastodon.social</a>).<br>3. I especially think that a site is responsible for its own users conduct only. <a href=\"http://social.kernel.org\" rel=\"ugc\">social.kernel.org</a> federates with many sites I have blocked. That's up to s.k.o. and their mods to the extent their own users want or need that protection. I don't block "by association", I only block sites that are directly bad.<br>4. I lost a lot of friends as the pandemic hit, and disproportionally (but not exclusively) those lost friends were other women. People I was hanging out with IRL and whose online interface is Facebook and other silo sites. Since I don't have, and never have had, a Facebook account, we drifted apart pretty much instantly when we couldn't meet IRL. If I could have some of them back by the silo sites going ActivityPub, that's a huge boon. When Google Talk went XMPP, I reconnected with friends I hadn't talked to for a few years. (And lost them abruptly when they defederated.)<br>5. [The fifth argument is a super-weak argument. It's stupid. But it's still a factor.] It's flattering on an emotional level that the silo sites want to become part of Fediverse, part of the social network that we built on rock and roll. It's tempting to go along with that. <br>6. And, as per my aforelinked Kumbaya Doctrine, federation going to be the ultimate outcome for them once they are truly reformed. (But I don't think they ever will be or can be reformed given how much damage they have done, and probablyl it's better that Meta's sites just go away and wither.)<br>7. While I do think servers should be FOSS and I do agree with the Franklin Street Statement, I was still reading Twitter (up until the elonmuskalypse) and Tumblr and Blogspot and Angelfire and Geocities over RSS as if they were any other server. I think there is a mile of difference between those kinds of proprietary-backend, open-protocol–frontend sites vs a "log-in only" site like Instagram or Facebook or Google Plus.<br>8. They could be a boon for Fedi's problem with scaling and resource use. That's not super likely since they're so evil, but they have contributed to server stack development so they might. 🤷🏻♀️<br><br>Ultimately a network on thousands of servers eating up the Earth's precious resources is not more efficient because it's labeled "the people's stick".",
"context": "tag:mastodon.social,2023-06-19:objectId=471067529:objectType=Conversation",
"conversation": "tag:mastodon.social,2023-06-19:objectId=471067529:objectType=Conversation",
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"inReplyTo": "https://merveilles.town/users/wim_v12e/statuses/110575776792341112",
"published": "2023-06-20T09:52:47.649649Z",
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"source": "Great & polite question from @wim_v12e@merveilles.town ♥\r\n\r\nMy arguments against blocking are weaker than the arguments for blocking so maybe I should block after all. I'm on the fence over here 🤷🏻♀️ \r\n\r\nBut for clarity's sake, here are my arguments against blocking:\r\n\r\n1. I'm lazy and not super eager to keep up with all the fediblocklists. I do block a couple of dozen instances, and more as I run into bad ones (I'm not in the free speech extremism camp), but I'm not being super diligent with keeping up with the larger convo around this.\r\n2. I value a heterogenous block landscape (i.e. I don't like a \"these are the good sites, and we all allow each other and we have the exact same block list\" world) for three reasons:\r\n2a. If some \"good\" sites can manage to keep up the convo with the asshole sites, like how @torvalds@social.kernel.org clearly and plainly spoke out against \"antiwoke\" the other day, that's an overall good for society and can help deradicalize 'em. Insert Paul Baran's classic \"distributed network\" image here. It's not all good because it also somewhat legitimizes the asshole sites, but there are good aspects to it.\r\n2b. Some instances are extra vulnerable and need an extra harsh instance block list (many even blocking mastodon.social). Since that's legit, then the converse is also true: some instances can handle a less harsh instance block list.\r\n2c. Even the \"good side\" has values it hasn't sorted out yet, and never will because discourse is never-ending and the arc of the moral universe is a wild and unruly rock-tumbler of chaos. As Pratchett put it: \"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.\" I've blocked people other \"good\" sites have allowed (for example Assange supporters) and I'm sure vice versa too (such as mastodon.social).\r\n3. I especially think that a site is responsible for its own users conduct only. social.kernel.org federates with many sites I have blocked. That's up to s.k.o. and their mods to the extent their own users want or need that protection. I don't block \"by association\", I only block sites that are directly bad.\r\n4. I lost a lot of friends as the pandemic hit, and disproportionally (but not exclusively) those lost friends were other women. People I was hanging out with IRL and whose online interface is Facebook and other silo sites. Since I don't have, and never have had, a Facebook account, we drifted apart pretty much instantly when we couldn't meet IRL. If I could have some of them back by the silo sites going ActivityPub, that's a huge boon. When Google Talk went XMPP, I reconnected with friends I hadn't talked to for a few years. (And lost them abruptly when they defederated.)\r\n5. [The fifth argument is a super-weak argument. It's stupid. But it's still a factor.] It's flattering on an emotional level that the silo sites want to become part of Fediverse, part of the social network that we built on rock and roll. It's tempting to go along with that. \r\n6. And, as per my aforelinked Kumbaya Doctrine, federation going to be the ultimate outcome for them once they are truly reformed. (But I don't think they ever will be or can be reformed given how much damage they have done, and probablyl it's better that Meta's sites just go away and wither.)\r\n7. While I do think servers should be FOSS and I do agree with the Franklin Street Statement, I was still reading Twitter (up until the elonmuskalypse) and Tumblr and Blogspot and Angelfire and Geocities over RSS as if they were any other server. I think there is a mile of difference between those kinds of proprietary-backend, open-protocol–frontend sites vs a \"log-in only\" site like Instagram or Facebook or Google Plus.\r\n8. They could be a boon for Fedi's problem with scaling and resource use. That's not super likely since they're so evil, but they have contributed to server stack development so they might. 🤷🏻♀️\r\n\r\nUltimately a network on thousands of servers eating up the Earth's precious resources is not more efficient because it's labeled \"the people's stick\".",
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